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What are "double places" as used in Carmen Astrolo
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:34 am
by Geoffrey
I am reading through Dorotheus (Pingree translation) and the Moon in "double places" seems to be a bad thing. But where or what are "double places"? I don't think it is double signs (Gemini and Pisces) as he talks about them early on.
I would be grateful for some help on this matter...
Thanks
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:38 pm
by Mjacob
Is it page 265 ?
Matthew
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:42 pm
by Geoffrey
Mjacob wrote:Is it page 265 ?
Matthew
In the Astrology Classics "Carmen Astrologicum" (2005), yes.
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:02 pm
by Mjacob
In context the Moon is considered better to start matters when movable or fixed as a rule so we cold summise it is not so good when in a double-bodied signs.
I have checked some equivalent works like Sahl but cannot more a more explicit reference.
Can anyone else assist us?
Matthew
ps See also page 167 in the same book
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:50 pm
by james_m
double places sounds like mutable signs..
deb is away this weekend.. maybe someone else can comment.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/mutable.html
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:41 pm
by Mjacob
Page 5 of Deborah's online Carmen is on natal not election so but it has reference to double (ie even) and then two-bodied sign in the same paragraph so they must be different definitions but no explanation added in the notes
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:11 pm
by james_m
place - is sometimes used for sign, or house.. double? sure sounds like mutable signs to me.
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:00 pm
by Chris Brennan
The text might be referring to a concept that comes up in some other authors where they say that a planet is "declining in a bad place". It involves combining the concept of the cadent or declining places as being negative with the concept that the places that are in aversion to the ascendant are also negative. These are two separate concepts that overlap with the 6th and 12th houses, since they are both declining and in aversion to the Ascendant, which is why they are considered to be the two worst houses. Maybe this is the idea that the text is awkwardly trying to convey as a 'doubly bad place'.
It is either that or it is saying that it is bad when a planet is in a declining house and a double-bodied (mutable) sign.
Or it just means cadent house, and that's it, in which case the double reference could indicate some equivalence between the signs and houses, like the modern 12 letter alphabet.
Unfortunately it is hard to know when you are dealing with a corrupt translation of a text that is three times removed from its original language.
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:23 pm
by Mjacob
Chris Brennan wrote:
Unfortunately it is hard to know when you are dealing with a corrupt translation of a text that is three times removed from its original language.
Indeed - but thank you for you for your valued opinion
Matthew
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:41 am
by Geoffrey
Thanks Chris. "Double places" is mentioned quite a lot, so it was obviously a factor of which we should have cognisance. Thanks again for your thoughts.
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:11 am
by Mjacob
Double (ie even) could be as in odd and even numbers. See also Al-Biruni 457 Male and female degrees
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:23 am
by Deb
Hi, I've just noticed this thread. Throughout the book, most references to double signs clearly mean "double-bodied" signs -
see glossary - but if there is a place where this doesn't make sense, can you quote the text so we can have a look?
BTW, the second book is now available for download:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dorotheus2.pdf