If the Moon has to square, conjunct, oppose, or trine any OTHER planet right before it conjoins your significator, is that prohibition? Because I saw a horary with Sag Rising (Jupiter in Cancer) and the Moon in Cancer first has to square Mars in Libra RX before it conjoins Jupiter in Cancer. If the two main sigs are not applying and the Moon's aspects are as described, is the answer effectively "no" because of prohibition, or what?

[ I saw a horary with Sag Rising (Jupiter in Cancer) and the Moon in Cancer first has to square Mars in Libra RX before it conjoins Jupiter in Cancer. If the two main sigs are not applying and the Moon's aspects are as described, is the answer effectively "no" because of prohibition, or what?[/quote]

As Mars is retrograde in Libra at present, and Jupiter in Cancer, I'll treat this as a recent horary you saw, and erect chart for May 3rd 9:15 pm GMT, London, the earliest time that gives more than three degrees of Sag rising with Moon in Cancer. I also don't know the question, so I'll give you the general rules and steps to follow. Horary astrology and many fine mystics say the Moon is the cause of everything that occurs in life on Earth. When reading a horary, note every major planetary aspect the Moon will make, in the order they occur, until it leaves the sign. This gives you the raw material for digging out the answer and sequence of events. Some times the answer jumps right out at you, others you have to dig. If there are no strictures against judgement, it will always yield an answer. Sometimes a stricture against judgement can be an answer in itself.
Prohibition is not a term I've heard applied to Astrology. Where I live it's something that saves dope dealers from having to get jobs at MaDonalds.
In the figure we're using as an example Moon is leaving a trine with Neptune, heading into a square with an angular Mars (ouch), though weak by sign and retrograde. Next moves to sextile with Sun and almost simultaneous opposition to much maligned Pluto. Then square from Uranus says surprise, motherfucker. Finally, recovering on Jupiter, a favorable nod from the devil, and a sextile to Mercury (7th house ruler). Happy hunting

I think of Prohibition as two planets 'competing' to aspect a third planet.

We can imagine that there are three planets. There is a planet; A, B, and C. Planet C is the central point that planets A and B are 'dashing' towards, the destination, so to speak. In this instance, let's say that planet C is the Moon(although it is a luminary, which is weird to use in explaining this), while planet A is Mercury and planet B is Saturn, and of course, both are applying in aspect to the Moon. Of the two planets in question, Mercury and Saturn, Mercury is naturally the swifter planet and so regardless of Saturn's orb, Mercury will aspect the Moon(again, weird to use because its vice versa) before Saturn can. Therefore, Saturn is prohibited from aspecting the Moon because of Mercury's aspect.

In a less theoretical sense, as we spoke about in a previous thread , this is the practical equivalent of not being able to engage in communicating or doing something because of another person's actions - sort of like parents(Saturn) grounding their child(Mercury) on the weekend that he wants to go over to his friend Graham's house, as a random example.

Becca wrote:I think of Prohibition as two planets 'competing' to aspect a third planet.

We can imagine that there are three planets. There is a planet; A, B, and C. Planet C is the central point that planets A and B are 'dashing' towards, the .

You're tugging on my lower extremity, right? (Oh lord, let it be so.)

StellarTiggy wrote:If the Moon has to square, conjunct, oppose, or trine any OTHER planet right before it conjoins your significator, is that prohibition? Because I saw a horary with Sag Rising (Jupiter in Cancer) and the Moon in Cancer first has to square Mars in Libra RX before it conjoins Jupiter in Cancer. If the two main sigs are not applying and the Moon's aspects are as described, is the answer effectively "no" because of prohibition, or what?

If two planets are not in application to one another, but some other planet, swifter than our two significators, separates from one significator, and then applies to the other, without aspecting any other planet first, then it's a straightforward translation of light.

In your example, Mars prohibits the translation, and this often denies perfection of the outcome. But we should pay attention to what this interposing planet is - what is its nature, what is its dignity, what is it ruling. If for example the Moon is going to aspect a well dignified benefic who receives the Moon before it perfects with the other significator then this may indicate some hurdle or some task which needs to be completed, or some assistance which needs to be sought before the perfection of the matter can happen.

However if the planet is an out of dignity malefic, as in this example, then it's unlikely to be a planet which is likely to aid the Moon and so is more likely to deny the perfection of the outcome.

@Scorpio Asc.

Hmm...I don't know what you mean. Did you identify with something I said?

BTW, sorry, I cannot figure out how to quote right now!

Becca wrote:@Scorpio Asc.

Hmm...I don't know what you mean. Did you identify with something I said?

BTW, sorry, I cannot figure out how to quote right now!

I thought you were making a joke, and I didn't get it, so I suggested you were pulling my leg. Because in a horary figure no planet can form an aspect to a faster moving one.
In transits to a natal chart, any transiting planet can transit (apply to an aspect) to any natal position, because natal positions don't change.
Paul's answer on this post was excellent.

Becca wrote: BTW, sorry, I cannot figure out how to quote right now!

Becca

You had it right, you just need to make sure you uncheck the box that says "Disable BBCode in this post".

It is a bit annoying to do it every single time, so instead what you can do is disable it by default. You can do this by clicking the "Profile" link on the left, and scrolling down to "Always allow BBCode:" and make sure that it is selected as "Yes". That way the default when you go to make a post will be for the BBCode to be enabled (and therefore for "Disable BBCode in this post" to be unchecked).

I've switched it on for your last two posts so the quotes from Becca work correctly now.

Scorpio Asc wrote:Paul's answer on this post was excellent.

Scorpio Asc

Thanks, glad it helped!

Becca wrote:I think of Prohibition as two planets 'competing' to aspect a third planet.

We can imagine that there are three planets. There is a planet; A, B, and C. Planet C is the central point that planets A and B are 'dashing' towards, the destination, so to speak. In this instance, let's say that planet C is the Moon(although it is a luminary, which is weird to use in explaining this), while planet A is Mercury and planet B is Saturn, and of course, both are applying in aspect to the Moon. Of the two planets in question, Mercury and Saturn, Mercury is naturally the swifter planet and so regardless of Saturn's orb, Mercury will aspect the Moon(again, weird to use because its vice versa) before Saturn can. Therefore, Saturn is prohibited from aspecting the Moon because of Mercury's aspect.

In a less theoretical sense, as we spoke about in a previous thread , this is the practical equivalent of not being able to engage in communicating or doing something because of another person's actions - sort of like parents(Saturn) grounding their child(Mercury) on the weekend that he wants to go over to his friend Graham's house, as a random example.

Becca

I think you have confused planetary speeds, which is why Scorpio Asc was confused.

In your example, Mercury and Saturn do not apply to the Moon. The Moon is the fastest body, nothing applies to it, it applies to other planets. Also translation of light is not when two planets apply to another. That is collection of light.

So I think you have made some confusion on collection and translation of light and then confused planetary speeds.

For clarity, translation of light is as I said above, collection of light is when two swifter moving planets which are not in aspect to one another, both apply to another planet, which is by definition slower than them. In this example, we could say that the Mars and Venus are our significators, but neither of them apply to one another. But instead Mars applies to Jupiter, and so too does Venus. In this case Jupiter, as it is applied to by both significators, collects their light, and can help to bring the matter to perfection. I am assuming in this example that the planets involved do not perfect any other aspects during this time.

Paul, how important is planetary speed? I've read several definitions of prohibitions and translation of light which refer to the intermediary planet being faster, but they don't quite nail a chart I read recently. To wit:

The querent (Mercury) and moon were conjunct and combust, and applying to a sextile with the quesited (Venus,) but before the sextile could perfect the moon and Mercury would apply to an opposition with Saturn.

Saturn wasn't the faster-moving planet, but I thought it might interfere with the outcome of the event.

??

waybread wrote:Paul, how important is planetary speed? I've read several definitions of prohibitions and translation of light which refer to the intermediary planet being faster, but they don't quite nail a chart I read recently. To wit:

The querent (Mercury) and moon were conjunct and combust, and applying to a sextile with the quesited (Venus,) but before the sextile could perfect the moon and Mercury would apply to an opposition with Saturn.

Saturn wasn't the faster-moving planet, but I thought it might interfere with the outcome of the event.

??

Waybread

Maybe I haven't explained this right, the planetary speed is important for the translating planet, normally the Moon. So the Moon needs to be swifter so that it can separate from one planet and apply to the other. Only a planet which is faster than the other two planets, our significators, could do that.

Prohibition is when any other aspect is formed and prohibits that potential perfection. Such as Moon separating from, say, Mercury and applying to Venus, but before it can perfect it's aspect to Venus, it first perfects an aspect to Saturn - Saturn prohibits the aspect.

An analogy that's sometimes given is a relay race, where 'light' is the baton. So a sprinter, the Moon, picks up the baton from his team mate, Mercury, and then sprints forward to pass that baton/light to Venus, but before that can happen, some other player gets in the way and the light/baton is passed to that other player instead. In this case Saturn.

As I was implying in my first post, we should look at the nature of this interposing planet to see whether this is just a hurdle which needs to be overcome, someone we need to first go to to help us, or whether it's something which denies the perfection and spoils the outcome. Typically it's the latter.

So in your example, the Moon is prohibited by a malefic, Saturn. Notice that speed isn't the important thing for the prohibiting planet, it's the important thing for the translating planet. The translating planet (the moon) by its nature in order to be able to sprint from one planet to the other, must need to be faster than both.

Thanks, Paul-- my confusion comes from my stash of horary primers, which seem to be saying that the intervening planet for translation/collection/prohibition has to be faster than the quesited or querent's planets.

If I read you correctly, however, if the querent (Mercury) and moon (combust and conjunct, but separating from the sun) both apply to a sextile with the quesited (Venus) but before the moon and Mercury can perfect the sextile they both perfect an opposition from an un-dignified Saturn then the matter will probably have an unsuccessful outcome. The main signifiers have to be faster, not the planet with whom they first perfect a difficult aspect. Right?

With the definitions and examples I read, it seemed that for a planet in Saturn's position to prohibit the successful outcome, it had to be faster than the main signifiers. Which is sort of impossible, when they're the moon, Mercury and Venus.