Skyscript Astrology Forum

i am curious if any of the folks who use profections can give the rationale for the use of them with regard to stephen kings birth chart in relation to the event when he was hit by a car on june 19 1999 at approx 4-5pm in western maine.

i just finished reading his book 'on writing': a memoir of the craft. i have never read a stephen king book before and this one is quite different then his usual fare.. i have a friend who read it and suggested i might enjoy reading it. i did. he's a great writer and an interesting cat. it turns out he was hit by a car and the event seems to have had a very powerful impact on his life.. usually when i find out about something like this i am naturally curious about the astrology at work.

i looked at a number of astrological techniques and think the solar return captures some of the nature of this event the best, although i have no way of knowing where he was at the time of his solar return for 1998 ( his birth date is sept 21st), i am confident that solar returns to a persons birth place work regardless of where the person is at the time of the sr..

if anyone would like to offer their insight into how the profections help give some insight into the critical year in kings life, i'd be curious. thanks.


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below is 1998 profection chart


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Just quickly James, as I am heading out now, but I was intrigued by your question. Mars is in the ASC sidereally, and lording the year of the profection via my own view of the rulerships within the Sidereal zodiac . He is returning to Cancer in the revolution of 1998 and is with the East of the Year. This repetition points to a Marital event related to the body.

The timing is very simple: The monthly profection reached Cancer, the natal sign of Mars at the end of May (13 monthly profections a year) which contains natal Mars and Mars is transiting the sign of the profected ASC, Libra, bringing his significations for the year to the life.

I can post charts tomorrow if you'd like.

thanks konrad,

i think i see what you are looking at when i switch out tropical for sidereal.

the other alternative is the time is out a few minutes and he has leo instead of cancer rising. i am not as convinced of this though..

leaving aside which zodiac one is using, i still read that the ascendant lord is the most important consideration in either.

if one was to do 12 monthly profections they could get to tropical gemini which is the 12th sign to cancer. i am unfamiliar with a 13 month profection.. how do you get that going? i can't recall reading about this in ben dykes book 3 on solar rev's but maybe it was their.. please elaborate. thanks!

i am confident that solar returns to a persons birth place work regardless of where the person is at the time of the sr..

I always use birth place for SR. Well I use siderial SR according to Bradley and Eshelman. In this SR Mars is on the ASC (partile) together with natal Saturn which means tough year. For timing I use progression of preccessed SR Moon. By progression this Moon come to the IC in Libra of SR in June and for me this means alarm (look transits!!) Of course we have to trace Venus who is Lady of the profected year and this Venus is opposed to Jupiter, Lord of SR 8th house. Close to date of accident Venus conjuncts Pluto (sorry I know this is not traditional), transiting Mars squares natal Mars, transiting Moon (natal L1) squares natal Moon.
For me, middle of the June 1999 is problematic for Mr. King.

Trojan

james_m wrote:thanks konrad,

i think i see what you are looking at when i switch out tropical for sidereal.

the other alternative is the time is out a few minutes and he has leo instead of cancer rising. i am not as convinced of this though..

leaving aside which zodiac one is using, i still read that the ascendant lord is the most important consideration in either.

if one was to do 12 monthly profections they could get to tropical gemini which is the 12th sign to cancer. i am unfamiliar with a 13 month profection.. how do you get that going? i can't recall reading about this in ben dykes book 3 on solar rev's but maybe it was their.. please elaborate. thanks!

You mean the lord of the profected ASC?

Basically, the 13 monthly profections aims to mimic the Sun and Moon's synodic cycle. I use the Gaurican version which splits the year into 13 equal parts and I profect one sign at the time of each change. I'm sure Ile has a blog post about them somewhere. Gauricus also uses the moment of the change as a Lunar Return chart too but I don't find much value in that.

horarcek,

thanks for sharing your approach! i haven't tried progressing the solar return chart data enough to have confidence in that approach. i think it could work and you seem to outline how it does work very well. thanks

konrad,

yes - lord of ascendant in sidereal would be mars the critical consideration for profections as i understand them. thanks for outlining the basis for the approach of 13 monthly profections.. i have avoided the use of monthly profections so far as i haven't been convinced of the usefulness of profections. i am trying to keep an open mind and i continue to give it consideration. i have perhaps wrongly concluded that the lord of the profection is the deciding factor.. as i understand it one can consider this same lord in the solar return chart for further strengthening or weakening of a particular pattern.

if mars was to be the profected lord - the match up to the solar return chart is obvious - the conjunction of mars to saturn which in sidereal is all in the sign cancer.. using the tropical lord of the profection - venus - it is harder to get to this position, unless one uses an unorthodox technique of the sesquisquare aspect - 135.. in the 1999 solar return chart venus makes an exact 135 to the angular saturn in the same chart.. in the natal chart these 2 planets saturn and venus are in a 45 or hard aspect relationship as well, so the pattern is repeated in the solar return chart.

of course one can point to the mars in the solar return chart sitting on saturn in the natal which brings together the angular planets in both charts and draws in a few different houses, but all in all my understanding of the way profection charts are used wouldn't incorporate this consideration as a primary consideration and would only emphasize this if mars or saturn were the profection lord of the year.. works in sidereal but not in tropical!!!

thanks both of you for the conversation.

Konrad,

I think you are talking about this post: http://beyondtheheaven.wordpress.com/20 ... volutions/



It is an intriguing observation I have made: lately there seems to be a rise in threads dealing with profections. I wonder if it is trendy?

I have some questions about profections myself, but I am currently operating under the philosophy of "think more, ask little". But this time I can't resist!

Konrad, by "dividing the year into 13 equal parts", do you mean dividing a "calendar year", or do you mean dividing a "solar year"?

If you divide a "calendar year", you would get 365/13 days or 366/13 days. Dividing a solar year would imply 365.25/13. Either way, you get a number with a long decimal, so the use of software will make one's life easier, by this method. I can certainly see the appeal of using 13 monthly profections. You get roughly 28 days, which is approximately the number of days in a lunar synodic cycle, although I prefer to look at it as an arithmetic mean between the lunar synodic cycle and lunar sidereal cycle.

In any case, the longer cycle is solar, while the shorter cycle is lunar; we get to use numbers associated with the two lights.

The only thing I do not really like is that, by this procedure, the profected ASC sign gets two months, while the other signs get one month...it looks assymetrical to me, compared to the distribution of the years. But, I guess it's not really a big problem. We can of it like this: the first month marks the beginning of a new annual focus, while the last month is the conclusion of that year's focus.

My other question would be, how do you calculate daily profections? Or you do not do this at all?

Larxene wrote:Konrad,

I think you are talking about this post: http://beyondtheheaven.wordpress.com/20 ... volutions/

Yes, that is the one.

Konrad, by "dividing the year into 13 equal parts", do you mean dividing a "calendar year", or do you mean dividing a "solar year"?

I mean just as Gauricus,via Ile, says.

The only thing I do not really like is that, by this procedure, the profected ASC sign gets two months, while the other signs get one month...it looks assymetrical to me, compared to the distribution of the years. But, I guess it's not really a big problem. We can of it like this: the first month marks the beginning of a new annual focus, while the last month is the conclusion of that year's focus.

That is not a problem for me as it is following a natural cycle. The Moon transits through the sign of the New Moon twice in her monthly cycle - once at the beginning at again at the end.

My other question would be, how do you calculate daily profections? Or you do not do this at all?

I don't use them in client work. What I outlined above is what I do. If this was a client's chart, I would say that the year shows a martial event concerning the body. The time-frame would be narrowed down to the end of May due to the monthly profection moving into Cancer while lord of the year, Mars, is stationing. Trimming that down, Mars ingresses Libra, the sign of the profected ASC on the 10th of June while the profection stays in Cancer until the 29th of June. So my timeframe would be between the 10th of June until the 29th of June. I do experiment with daily profections when researching, and when I do, I use the time it takes for the Moon to move from sign-to-sign to time the change in the profections. I'm not sure if this is what was suggested by the ancient authors, but it just a method I developed to save time in calculating the actual Lunar Month and then dividing it into sections. By the time of King's accident, the Moon has moved from Sidereal Sagittarius on the 31st of May to Leo on the 19th of June, so nine signs which brings us to Pisces and Mars' sign under my own view of the rulership system. It is not always as neat as that hence this only being at an experimental stage for me.

thanks for ile's website story. it motivated me to go to morinus to see if i could do what he was discussing regarding the 13 option for profections. i was able to see that, but i started in tropical as opposed to sidereal.

i wonder who is working with primary directions? i ask a lot of questions because it means i don't think, lol.. either that or 2 ( or more ) minds are better then 1..

here is a picture of stephen kings primary directions set to the date of his accident. one can notice the pd sun making an exact square to saturn back in the natal. those are direct zodiac primary directions using the naibod key and placidus semi arc direction..


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regarding converse directions using the same format, converse directions show saturn to the opposition of midheaven for the same time frame - may 31st 1999 to be specific. below is a picture that captures this.


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Konrad,

So you are using the solar year then. I am also experimenting with daily profections based on the Moon's travelling time in the signs, but my original basis is different. I was working out the details of a 12-month profections, because annual profections repeat every 12 years so I wanted the months to reflect that (and also because it is easier to calculate by hand! ). Just like in Zodiacal Releasing, because the years are divided into 12, and the months are divided into 12, might as well divide the days into 12. Doing so we get this magic number:

365.25/12^2=2.536... (4 s.f.)

...which is approximately the same as the time it takes for a Moon to travel through a sign when it moves at an average speed (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/slow.html).



@james_m:

There are many other possibilities. Either you think superficially (note that I did not say "think everything, ask nothing"), or you are simply the spontaneous kind of person, or you have thought about the matter deeply but still cannot come to a conclusion, or ...

For myself, I want to avoid relying on other people as much as possible. I also find that sometimes I ask a question that I can actually answer myself if I just put a little thought into it.

And no, two is not always better than one.



Going back to the original question, using whole signs, since the Ascendant is profected to the 4th sign, Mars hands over to Venus and Mercury. I am still a noob at this technique, but to me this means "bodily danger (Mars in Ascendant in fall) during one's travels (Venus is in the 3rd, Mercury rules the 3rd, Venus exalts in the 9th)."

I am also curious about the profection of Jupiter to Aquarius (the latter of which happens to be the 8th house). This seems to imply that Jupiter, as ruler of the 6th, is handing over the task of creating injuries and illnesses to Saturn. Saturn is well-placed for disaster in this chart, being contrary to the sect, in the 2nd sign and in detriment.

There are two indications of bodily injuries in the natal chart. First is that Mars in the Ascendant, then there is the Moon in the 6th sign. So the potential for a major car accident is there.



To make matters more complicated, there are some traditional authors that choose Leo to be the Ascendant when dealing with this chart, because this chart is in the last degree of the sign.

i am not familiar with the whole story, but considering who he is and so assuming that there was a lot of media coverage involved...

At age 52, he was in a 5thH profected year. The profected Asc Lord of the Year, Mars, hands over to the Moon which lies in the 5thH, concurrently the profected 1stH. As the Moon features, we can look at the Lunar Return Chart for the moth of the accident, but is IMHO too broad of a spectrum. As opposed to any of these fancy schmancy delineation methods and charts, I think that we can simply interpret the natal chart with good old transits on the day of the accident and garner just as much accuracy. Sure, maybe there was something liek a full Moon(I'm thinking along the lines of the myth that it influences lunatics to come out of the woodwork to roam about, ha ha ha! ), but I believe that the accident is actually evident without looking at such a thing. Just by looking at the natal chart alone, there are various syanonymous signs of an omnious year ahead.

Mars is a natural ruler of accidents and injuries. In Cancer, its sign of fall, we can expect the native to suffer either a literal or a methaphorical fall. Maybe a series of both throughout the year. On the 8thH(surgery, near fatal accidents, recuperation) and 9thH(long journeys, publishing, legs) cusps, Mars is also the Lord of the profected 6thH of health and there is disposition of the Moon by Mars which falls in the 1stH, house of the overall body. Jupiter, a natural ruler of legs and in the sign of surgical procedures(Scorpio), which lies in the profected 12thH of hospitals and places of seclusion, is then disposed of by the Moon.

Finally, the 10thH/11thHs of general reputation & social media stellium overlays the Naal 3rdH cusp synbolizing an emphasis on his involvement with modes of transportation, roads; a high way for example, and short journeys being things that will capture media scrutiny at some point.

Et viola! There it is. Its easy.

larxene,

thanks for sharing your additional thoughts and insights. we are all different and no mental process is straight forward, mine own or anyone else for that matter - all as i see it. this is actually quite philosophical in nature too, or maybe it is that i turn everything into philosophy!

becca,

thanks for sharing. you can do whatever you want! but if you are going to consider profections, the accident happens in 1999 before his 52nd birthday.. using tropical zodiac, venus, not mars is the lord of the profection.