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From what I can read on the internet Hephaestion of Thebes in his book Apotelesmatics has a table with the decans and the 12th devision of the signs (dodekatemoria). On that Table he attributes a deity to each dodekatemoria.

Books 1 and 2 of Hephaistio?s Apotelesmatika were translated into English by Robert Schmidt in the mid-1990s.

Does someone has that books? If so, could you be so kind to send me this information?

This is part of a research I'm doing at the moment regarding the decans, the dodekatemoria and the fixed stars.

Many thanks!

Ricardo

Do you have a reference Ricardo? I was looking for a copy of the second book of Hephaistio the other day and couldn't find it - many of my books are packed away in boxes at the moment but if you know for sure the information is in the first book I think I can get to that one.

Deb wrote:Do you have a reference Ricardo? I was looking for a copy of the second book of Hephaistio the other day and couldn't find it - many of my books are packed away in boxes at the moment but if you know for sure the information is in the first book I think I can get to that one.

I am afraid not. I can't find the index of the books, so I can't find out in which one is this reference. If its not too much trouble it would be great if you could check it one the 1st one. Many thanks!

Ricardo_Moola wrote:...Hephaestion of Thebes in his book Apotelesmatics has a table with the decans and the 12th devision of the signs (dodekatemoria). On that Table he attributes a deity to each dodekatemoria.

Greetings Ricardo,


According to the Table of Contents of Book I, I can only find three chapters that may relate to what you may be searching for. These are:

1. Concerning the Name and the Power of the Twelfth-Parts
18. Concerning the Twelfth-parts That Are According to Degrees
19. Concerning One's Own Face and Chariots and Thrones

However, I did not find any tables in these chapters, and I don't think there are tables within Book I. As such, the information you are searching for, if your description is accurate, should be found in Book II. Alternatively, the table may not have been reproduced in the translation. I don't have access to Book II.


In any case, let me tell you briefly about the content of these chapters. In Chapter 1, although the word "Twelfth-Parts" is used, it is actually referring to the zodiac signs, since the ecliptic is divided in twelve. I remember Ptolemy using this word for a similar purpose, and Apotelesmatics is significantly based on Ptolemy. This chapter talks about the nature and qualities of the signs, including the dignities, among them the boundaries and decans, and some meteorology as well as sign-country associations. Chapter 18 is a very short chapter that describes how to calculate the dodekatemoria.

Then we have Chapter 19. "Face" here does not refer to decans, but is referring to a special relationship between a planet and the lights, according to sign placements relative to each other as well as to planetary phase. For example, Venus is in her face if she is in sextile relationship with the Sun AND is western relative to the Sun, that is, she rises after the Sun. This is because Libra is in sextile relationship with Leo, and is western from Leo because Libra rises on the Ascendant after Leo.


I don't know about deity names given to the dodekatemoria of planets, but I have seen more than once the situation where a decan is given a name. Here is an example from Chapter 1 in Apotelesmatics (note that these are the decans of Aries):

"Furthermore, for every zoidion they distinguished three decans in ten degree intervals. And the first decan is Chontare, the second Chontachre, the third Siket."

Hope this helped.



Regards,

Larxene Xenohart

Larxene wrote:
I don't know about deity names given to the dodekatemoria of planets, but I have seen more than once the situation where a decan is given a name. Here is an example from Chapter 1 in Apotelesmatics (note that these are the decans of Aries):

"Furthermore, for every zoidion they distinguished three decans in ten degree intervals. And the first decan is Chontare, the second Chontachre, the third Siket."

Hope this helped.

YES IT DID!!! Thanks a lot for this last part. With this information I manage to search online and found list 3 important lists for the decans: the egyptian version, the one from Hephaestion and another one from Firmicus Maternus.

For those who are interesed this information is on website of Wikiastro - the article is in german but tha table with the informations is easy to undestand.

Thanks again Larxene!

Welcome back, Ricardo.

Sure, glad I could help. I believe you are referring to this link: http://wiki.astro.com/astrowiki/de/Dekangott

So in the end, you weren't looking for the 12th Part's (i.e. dodekatemoria) names. The usual meaning for this word as used in our astrological community does not refer to decans, but refers to multiplying the degree of a planet by 12 or 13 and then adding that number to the signs, beginning from the 1st degree of the planet's sign.

Anyway, not totally related, but I found an article by the Golden Dawn which uses those decanic names as representing angels: http://www.golden-dawn-canada.com/pdf/s ... horash.pdf



Larxene Xenohart

Sorry for the delay. I see you have the info now - I was just coming back to tell you that I couldn't find that information in Hephaistio book I, but Firmicus might be a good source if you get access to that.

Good luck with the research.

Larxene wrote:So in the end, you weren't looking for the 12th Part's (i.e. dodekatemoria) names. The usual meaning for this word as used in our astrological community does not refer to decans, but refers to multiplying the degree of a planet by 12 or 13 and then adding that number to the signs, beginning from the 1st degree of the planet's sign.

Larxene,

the pre-Hellenistic Mesopotamian tradition assigned a star to each of the Dodekatemoira, and saw them as a zodiac within a sign.

Hello Konrad,

Oh, is that so? I see.

Seen from another perspective, faces/decans are third-parts, similar to the dodekatemoria (twelfth-parts) and navamsa (ninth-parts).

Larxene,

I can't speak for the origintaors of the other divisons, but the Mesopotamians seemed to have seen the sky in fractals of both space and time; they divided up each sign like the zodiac and divided each day like they did each year. There is also some coincidence between their division of time and the concept of Primary Directions and Profections. I made a small post on it some time ago, but I can't find it now.

Hello Konrad,

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I recently read an old interview of Robert Hand and at one point he talked about degrees or moira. Apparently these were treated like discontinuous boxes or discrete numbers by the Greeks. Perhaps there is a connection.



Larxene Xenohart

Konrad wrote:Larxene,

I can't speak for the origintaors of the other divisons, but the Mesopotamians seemed to have seen the sky in fractals of both space and time; they divided up each sign like the zodiac and divided each day like they did each year. There is also some coincidence between their division of time and the concept of Primary Directions and Profections. I made a small post on it some time ago, but I can't find it now.

May be because you had accidently rolled over to the football side
Your discussion was based on sidereal measurements, I presume.


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Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:28 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Janis,

firstly, as you know, I use a Sidereal measurement, so the dodekatemoiria will place differently than in the Tropical measurement. Right now, I look only at the dodekatemoiria of the degree of the IC (following Dorotheus in seeing the angle of the earth as the outcome of the election) and the dodekatemoiria of Fortune. What I am interested in is applying aspects to either within the 3 degree limit proposed by Antiochus by benefics to fortify the favourite, malefics to fortify the underdog. I am getting decent results but there is still something I am not seeing, especially when neither have any applying aspects. In those games, something is still happening but I can't see what. I am in the middle of exams now, so I won't be able to devote myself to it fully for another couple of weeks.

I am very interested in getting all of the championship, league one and league two games kicking off on a Saturday at 15.00 and seeing the differences in the charts (the Dutch league playing Friday nights is even better with Holland being a small country), and these are the points I saw aspects to showing diferent results, yet there was a consistency with an aspect from the Sun alone, for example, via fortifying the favourite, from Mars, the underdog and so on.

Edit: sorry, I use the multiplication by 12, it fits the fractal of space theory I ascribe them to.
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