Hey, folks!

I am trying to read the answer from this horary chart, but I am having a little hard time with it (maybe because it is a personal question and Saturn is in the 7th?)

The question is: will he ever talk to me again? if yes, when?

The chart is this:

So, what I see: Venus and Mars doing a separating sextile, indicating a 'no'. Also, Moon and Mars in a square aspect, another 'no'. However, Venus and Mars are in Mutual Reception (Ruler-Trip), so this would be a 'yes' right? This is where I don't know how to judge the chart. And if this is a yes, what is the time frame for that? 7 degrees that separate Venus and Mars (13 - 6) or 23 degrees (until Venus reaches 06Sag?)

Any help on what you see here and what is your judgment is appreciated! Thank you.

Anyone, please?

Hi Yair,

You might get more responses if you provide some background to your question, and maybe a fuller delineation. For example, let readers know who "he" is, so we can identify the proper house to use... Your own delineation is good (it's OK to be wrong), because otherwise if you don't put in the effort to judge your chart (and it is a personal question important to you), then why should anyone else?

Cheers,
Nina

Yair Alon wrote: Any help on what you see here and what is your judgment is appreciated! Thank you.

Hi Yair

It would be good to provide background and a full judgement of your own and what your own thoughts are on the horary, as Nina suggests.

Hi Nina and Paul!

thanks for your answers and advices.

Ok, so a little more background: 'he' is an ex-boyfriend. We have been talking regularly on whatsapp even after the relationship has ended, but since last Tuesday (October, 28th) it seems that he has blocked me, because my messages don't come to him and I can't see his online or offline status. I tried to reach him by phone and e-mail, but I got no answer or return from him. Hence, my question. I don't know what happened for him to block me, and if I think rationally, I don't recall doing anything that may have caused this.

My judgment, as I said in the first message, is that he won't talk to me again. This is how I interpreted the chart, and my only confusion was regarding how to read the mut. relationship and its meaning.

Thank you!

Hi, Yair Alon.

As Paul and Nina already mentioned, your own interpretation of the chart would be much appreciated because the only thing other Astrologers can do, is to offer their impressions and, potentially advices. The chart still remains your task. And, by interpretation, I don't mean just "YES" or "NO", but rather a thorough approach to the symbolism found in this chart. I read your recent post in the mystery chart topic here on Skyscript and you obviously have a lot of experience in assigning the appropriate value to certain symbolical elements in a chart. Well, Horary charts aren't all that different from Natal charts, actually - looking for a three-letter answer will most likely get you no where because, some times, it is not hidden in an applying aspect. More importantly, the shape of the main significators might give you the answer to some questions even before you move onto the aspects. That's because the planets describe the situation in general- it might seem complicated but, then again, it's a much safer option - when you start to recognise the elements of reality in a chart, you gain a much bigger freedom in terms of interpreting stellar promise.

The need to take a thorough approach in delineating this chart is actually visible from the very beginning, if not from the Question itself.
"Will he ever talk to me again?" - really, that's not a good question. You know that it is very unlikely that this person will refuse to talk to you for the rest of his life. On the other hand, finding out that he'll become talkative again in about 20 years from now would not be of much help at the moment.
Likewise, what if you stumble upon him somewhere tomorrow and he says: "Hi, how have you been?" and then stops answering your emails again?! You'd get the desired answer to your original question ("yes, he will talk to me again") but, not the desired outcome (that's hardly the type of conversation that you were hoping for).

So, this is, technically, a clear example of a relationship chart- the Querent wants to know how the situation is most likely to be developing in the nearest future and after the recent break up.
Which brings me to the second point: the current shape of your relationship is, to a great extent, dictated by your current personal shape (yours and your ex boyfriend's equally). That said, its development can be examined through the shape of your rulers in this chart. Like I said- one huge part of the story can be read even before you move onto the aspects.

You are Venus and he is Mars. Where is he? Inside the 9th in the rulership of L10 conjunct Pluto - he is cadent obviously not talkative at the moment and he is surely also going through a transformation period. The influence of the 10th and the 9th could saying all sorts of things (higher education, job issues etc.) but, that part you can surely unravel easier than anyone else.
Where's your ruler? Inside the 7th (him), inside his rulership (him), in your own exile (thinking only about him), burnt by the Sun beams (blinded by him). In addition, your ruler is rushing into a conjunction with Saturn (hard feelings, rejection).
You'+re overwhelmed by this situation and your ruler is hardly presenting you as a constructive party in this phase. The chart is so obviously telling you that you need to start from yourself - you should probably stop sending him endless messages (this part hasn't got much to do with astrology, has it?! ):
Your rulers are separating from a benevolent sextile- you have terminated something that used to be very important to both of you.
The Moon is inside his rulership and applying to his ruler and, since the Moon actually rules the 3rd (communication), it's a double testimony that a message will, eventually, reach him or that you will get the opportunity to communicate with him. But, as I already said, that isn't really the answer to your question- you need to focus onto the primary significators!

Cheers,

aglaya

Hello, Aglaya!

Wow, I can't say thanks enough for your awesome answer! Now I see what you three wanted to say about giving my impressions on the chart. I thought it was only a matter of seeing the yes or no there.

This being said, I want to discuss the points you brought up in your answer and further analyze the chart with what I see, and as requested.

You are Venus and he is Mars. Where is he? Inside the 9th in the rulership of L10 conjunct Pluto - he is cadent obviously not talkative at the moment and he is surely also going through a transformation period. The influence of the 10th and the 9th could saying all sorts of things (higher education, job issues etc.) but, that part you can surely unravel easier than anyone else.

He is going through job issues, from what I know. The fact that Mars is in Capricorn (in its exaltation) shows how hard he is working, and that it is leaving him with little time for other things. (Mars is also opposite to the Arabic Part of Organisation). Not only, Mars is under Saturn rulership, Saturn is under Mars rulership, therefore a mutual reception. Saturn rules the 10th, as noticed = job issues.

Mars is also sextiling Kyron, which, in Kabbalah indicates pains (both physical as well as emotional). So this can suggest he is passing through a transformation period connected to some pains. Also, Mars is separating from a sextile Neptune, indicating that he most certainly was feeling confused or was analyzing things in an unclear way. Now he is seeing things clearer and with more accuracy.

Where's your ruler? Inside the 7th (him), inside his rulership (him), in your own exile (thinking only about him), burnt by the Sun beams (blinded by him). In addition, your ruler is rushing into a conjunction with Saturn (hard feelings, rejection).
You'+re overwhelmed by this situation and your ruler is hardly presenting you as a constructive party in this phase. The chart is so obviously telling you that you need to start from yourself - you should probably stop sending him endless messages (this part hasn't got much to do with astrology, does it?! Smile ):

I have stopped sending messages, but I didn't know the chart showed me in such a negative perspective, lol. Indeed, I am way too connected to him yet, and I'm trying to figure out how to break the bonds. Maybe this lack of communication is a good opportunity for that.

Since Venus is in Scorpio, I see I have to work on deep emotions and memories of the past, trying to "fix" them. Forgetting is not easy (Scorpio), but maybe necessary.

Your rulers are separating from a benevolent sextile- you have terminated something that used to be very important to both of you.
The Moon is inside his rulership and applying to his ruler and, since the Moon actually rules the 3rd (communication), it's a double testimony that a message will, eventually, reach him or that you will get the opportunity to communicate with him. But, as I already said, that isn't really the answer to your question- you need to focus onto the primary significators!

The separating sextile and the Moon (co-ruler of me) under Mars rulership shows me that he still thinks about me, the past, and what was important to both of us, as you say.

Moon (3rd ruler) is applying to Mars but with a square aspect, which leads me to think that he wants to contact me or talk to me, but is holding himself. If he comes to talk to me, maybe this will be somewhat forced, and not out of a pure conviction that he oughts to do so.

Also, from all this discussion now I see that messages are getting to him, but no messages are getting to me (Venus).

Trying to analyze the map as giving answers to what can be done to help improve this negative aspect in which the querent is (me), I see that the Moon is close to entering the 12th house, of oblivion and forgetting. So maybe this is an approach to take, or something that will happen naturally in the next days.

Also, the fact that the Moon is in the 11th house, may suggest that feelings should be focused on friends and social relations.

Hi, again!

Yair Alon wrote: The fact that Mars is in Capricorn (in its exaltation) shows how hard he is working, and that it is leaving him with little time for other things.

Although essential dignities generally announce positive manifestation of the planet's nature, in reality, we can actually perceive this as negative at times. I'll give you a simple example- Sun inside Leo in an angle but with no aspects. The essential and accidental dignities are allowing this Sun to express its most prominent characteristics (domination, male principle, rulership, leadership etc.), but, in reality, with no aspect to break or intervene with this energy, we get an authoritarian, heartless bossy type. So, basically, the stellar promise is expressed to the maximum (the good part), but the society might not perceive it as positive (lack of humanity).
A similar thing often happens in relationship charts - an exalted planet refusing to establish a connection with either the Querent's ruler or any other planet for that matter, is a potential warning that the person is currently overly focused onto himself which, in another life situation, might be a very good thing however, it is a great obstacle in the process of establishing a relationship with another person.
I think there should be an example chart that i posted a few years ago somewhere here in which the Quesited was ruled by an exalted Saturn in Libra. He was a music wunderkind - he was a guitar player who held his first solo concert at the age of 4. In terms of his artistic creativity, he was the best possible example of an exalted Saturn inside the rulership of Venus. But, privately, he was overly focused onto himself and his own genius and completely unattainable - the Querent just couldn't reach to his hearth.

So, in this particular case, we can certainly assume that the Quesited is maneuvering a lot of professional tasks but, also, that, on a personal level, he isn't really approachable. This is exactly why I said that the shape of the rulers holds one huge part of the story - you're focused onto him. He, on the other hand, is focused onto his job and himself at the moment.

I have stopped sending messages, but I didn't know the chart showed me in such a negative perspective, lol.

It's neither bad or good - it's just the picture of your current attitude and feelings. And it isn't uncommon either- I have seen plenty L1 burnt by the Sun inside the 7th.
The presence of Saturn inside the 7th is actually a warning against judgement especially since your ruler (and you're the astrologer in this case) is blinded but, technically, we can translate this influence into the every day language and say that, yes, you're overwhelmed by the whole story.

Since Venus is in Scorpio, I see I have to work on deep emotions and memories of the past, trying to "fix" them. Forgetting is not easy (Scorpio), but maybe necessary.

Scorpio only adds another layer of trouble to this- not only are you still dependent on him emotionally (in his rulership) but, you're actually picking Scorpio-types of weapons - "attacking" with messages, feeling deep pain and then sending messages again.

Moon (3rd ruler) is applying to Mars but with a square aspect, which leads me to think that he wants to contact me or talk to me, but is holding himself.

The Moon rules the Question, you and communication in this particular case. So, in a way, I'd argue that it actually an indication of either one of your messages reaching him or of a possibility two establish a communication no matter who initiates it.
However, the mutual reception in this case also speaks volumes. The Moon is peregrine in Aries and will son be cadent but,it is actually received by Mars which changes the nature of the square. However, Mars is inside the fall of the Moon which again, complicates the situation since the Moon cannot receive him. Or, maybe, express herself in the appropriate way. I'd say that this may be an indication of his willingness to listen to you but, at the same time, of his non-willingness to accept the type of conversation that you suggest. Maybe you need a different approach.

Cheers,

aglaya

First of all, thanks again, aglaya, for taking the time to answer me.

Although essential dignities generally announce the positive manifestation of the planet's nature, in reality, we can actually perceive this as negative on times.

A similar thing often happens in relationship charts - an exalted planet refusing to establish a connection with either the Querent's ruler or any other planet for that matter, is a potential warning that the person is currently overly focused onto himself which, in another life situation, might be a very good thing however, it is a great obstacle in the process of establishing a relationship with another person.

So, in this case you are not taking into account Mars Sextile Venus? I agree with you, and when I say that Mars is exalted and this is good, this is good for him, of course, it is his ruler. For me, Venus, as it comes to a relationship, the indication is not that good, as you said. He doesn't want to get in touch and he is within his things and job.

The Moon rules the Question, you and communication in this particular case. So, in a way, I'd argue that it actually an indication of either one of your messages reaching him or of a possibility two establish a communication no matter who initiates it.

I was confused with that. Why do you see this as a message reaching him if this is a square aspect? Only because the Moon is being received by Mars? Isn't that too "weak" if compared to the square aspect? Also, as you noticed, it is not a proper mutual reception, since Mars is in Moon's fall. Mars is not being received by the Moon... Since it is in its fall, we could say that he is being rejected by the Moon. So maybe the message is being ignored, more than received and listened to? I mean, I agree with the second part of your statement: "his non-willingness to accept the type of conversation that you suggest", but I am a little skeptic with the first one "an indication of his willingness to listen to you". From what I see at the moment, he is not willing to listen :-)

Thank you very much again, you have been enormously helpful, and have taught me a lot here. I think the situation is very well delineated now, thanks to you.

Yair Alon wrote:

Although essential dignities generally announce the positive manifestation of the planet's nature, in reality, we can actually perceive this as negative on times..

So, in this case you are not taking into account Mars Sextile Venus?

I always take everything into account however, in the example that you provided (dignities vs.aspect), we are talking about two different elements of the chart. Compatible and mutually dependable, of course, but still two completely separate elements.
Whilst mutual reception or a lack thereof talks about your current potential to establish any kind of relationship/communication (as I already said, even the essential dignities of one of the planets can reveal a lot), the aspects talk about action or activities. Applying aspects- future activities, separating aspects- past actions, partile aspects- immediate or ongoing activity.
A separating sextile, thus, speaks of what has already happened- the separation. Sextile carries nice energy and activities/relationships described by this aspect can generally be described as harmonious. The separation of the planets from this aspect says that these days are now behind you (that we already know, the relationship has been terminated, permanently or temporarily but, what used to be is now a matter of past).
Now, in order to add a few more details to this picture, we analyse the shape and placement of the rulers and that we have already discussed - the two of you have separated only your are still firmly attached to either him or simply to your relationship with him as your ruler is still "trapped" inside his rulership.
The combustion describes your approach to the situation, Saturn and exile describe how you probably react to the circumstances.
We have already mentioned his current focus and shape (job, exaltation etc).
Finally, the mutual reception tells us about your current potential to act either as a couple again or about the possibility to communicate with each other.

Before I continue, I should probably correct some of my dyslectic mistakes from the previous post:

So, in a way, I'd argue that it IS actually an indication of either one of your messages reaching him or of a possibility to establish a communication no matter who initiates it

Ok, now, onto your quote:

I was confused with that. Why do you see this as a message reaching him if this is a square aspect? Only because the Moon is being received by Mars? Isn't that too "weak" if compared to the square aspect?

Because, as I mentioned earlier in the post - an aspect means an activity! In order to conclude that a message will not reach the recipient, we'd have to see a form of prohibition. The nature of the aspect doesn't deny the activity- it only describes its nature. It could be a stressful activity or simply a dramatic or intense activity should the mutual reception decrease some of the negativity but, this way or the other, it is still an activity.
Reception is neither weaker or stronger than an aspect- it's a completely different "entity".
The first planet that the Moon will stumble upon during her passage through Aries is Mars so, no prohibition. The Moon cannot turn retrograde, Mars will not form an aspect with another planet before this square either and so- there is no prohibition.

Also, as you noticed, it is not a proper mutual reception, since Mars is in Moon's fall.

It's proper only it's mixed reception- the two planets are not equally interested in an activity. In addition, it could be a good example of what I'd already been talking about- of the inability of one of the participants to hear the other one, or the inability to understand the words correctly.

but I am a little skeptic with the first one "an indication of his willingness to listen to you". From what I see at the moment, he is not willing to listen :-)

Speaking of a burnt L1 . You want the answer immediately but it just doesn't go that way.

Cheers,

aglaya

Fantastic, aglaya! Thank you very much for your patience and all your kind (and wise) answers.

Best Regards!!