Hello everyone,

I am currently working on a body of horoscopy treatises in Chinese dated from the 8th century. The texts have been speculated to be translations of the Tetrabiblos.

Upon closer scrutiny, I have come to the conclusion that they are translations of certain horoscopic handbook in Syriac based on the Tetrabiblos tradition. The texts were brought to China by the East-Syrian Christians (often mistakenly called the Nestorian in earlier literature) during mid-Tang dynasty from the 8th century and were still practiced up to 13th century.

From 13th century on, western horoscopy became increasingly sinicized. I have attached here a chart of a 16th century Chinese horoscope. Almost all Chinese astral divination follows the same format.

I am currently editing the translation of this 8th century text (first testimonia dated 10th century and the version we have is printed only 16th century). The horoscopy described as I mentioned is related to the Tetrabiblos but it is an abridgment and I can't quite connect to anything I know -- Vettius Valens, Dorotheus, etc. I will have my translation published next month in a scientific journal and let other scholars to comment and to identify the possible connections.

If any of you is interested, please let me know. If you could tell me a bit about your background and what your thoughts are on this topic, I am happy to send you a draft of my translation for your comments.

The spread of horoscopy in China and the rest of East Asia throughout the first millennium is a very interesting topic for many researchers currently as it tells us a lot about the prescientific cultures in Eurasia.

Regards,

Bill Mak

Kyoto University

billmak wrote:Hello everyone,

I am currently working on a body of horoscopy treatises in Chinese dated from the 8th century. The texts have been speculated to be translations of the Tetrabiblos. Upon closer scrutiny, I have come to the conclusion that they are translations of certain horoscopic handbook in Syriac based on the Tetrabiblos tradition. The texts were brought to China by the East-Syrian Christians (often mistakenly called the Nestorian in earlier literature) during mid-Tang dynasty from the 8th century and were still practiced up to 13th century. From 13th century on, western horoscopy became increasingly sinicized. I have attached here a chart of a 16th century Chinese horoscope. Almost all Chinese astral divination follows the same format.

I am currently editing the translation of this 8th century text (first testimonia dated 10th century and the version we have is printed only 16th century). The horoscopy described as I mentioned is related to the Tetrabiblos but it is an abridgment and I can't quite connect to anything I know -- Vettius Valens, Dorotheus, etc. I will have my translation published next month in a scientific journal and let other scholars to comment and to identify the possible connections.

If any of you is interested, please let me know. I am happy to send you a draft of my translation for your comments.

The spread of horoscopy in China and the rest of East Asia throughout the first millennium is a very interesting topic for many researchers currently as it tells us a lot about the prescientific cultures in Eurasia.

Regards,

Bill Mak

Kyoto University

Yeah sure.
hank you very much.Do you need my email address?

thanks

Hello Bill,

Interesting idea. But can you upload a smaller image instead? For example, you can upload the picture to http://postimage.org/ then post the "Thumbnail for Forums" link here. Don't need to resize the picture. Thanks.



Larxene Xenohart

Hi Larxene,

Thanks for the tips! I just did that but still can't get wordwrap back to work.

Regards

Bill

Larxene wrote:Hello Bill,

Interesting idea. But can you upload a smaller image instead? For example, you can upload the picture to http://postimage.org/ then post the "Thumbnail for Forums" link here. Don't need to resize the picture. Thanks.

Larxene Xenohart

Hello again Bill,

You're welcome. The wordwrap problem is due to Jack quoting your first post with the large image. Jack Sweeney, would you replace your quote with the latest version of Bill's first post? Thanks.

By the way, Bill, you hinted that you have read Dorotheus, Valens and Ptolemy. Did you read the critical editions or the translated versions? If the latter, whose translations have you read?

I haven't gone through much of Tetrabiblos, so my comments won't be of much use. I may be able to direct you to some translations though, or compare the techniques you've read with that of Valens, Dorotheus and Maternus.

Oh, by the way, that looks like a square chart. It looks like it has more information than just the seven planets though.



Regards,

Larxene Xenohart

Thanks for the comments, Larxene. The decipherment on the Chinese astrological text "Yusi jing" has progressed quite a bit since the last message, thanks to the collaboration of a number of scholars. I published a paper on it in SCIAMVS last month. "Yusi" was a short form of "Duliyusi" and it appeared to be a transcription of Dorotheus via Pahlav? or Syriac. I hope to have left a bibliography rich enough in my paper for other scholars to explore this interesting and unknown source on Greek astrology transmitted outside the Western world.

The textual history of Dorotheus, Vettius Valens and even Tetrabiblos are too complicated for discussion here. But I hope the competent scholars on the subject may shed more light on this subject, perhaps under a different thread.