Skyscript Astrology Forum

Hello,

Briefly, my understanding is that Besiegement occurs when a planet is in between two malefics, and none of the benefics cast a ray in between them. For example, Mars in the 10th degree of Taurus, the Moon in the 15th degree of Taurus, and Saturn in the 20th degree of Taurus. The Moon is besieged by the malefics.

My question is, would a planet be besieged if one of the malefics is in an adjacent sign (while also maintaining that no benefics cast a ray between them)?

For example, Mars in the 25th degree of Taurus, the Moon in the 5th degree of Gemini, and Saturn in the 10th degree of Gemini. Is the Moon besieged here?



Larxene

If you allow for your aspects to carry across sign, then I see no reason it wouldn't.

Personally I see it that if a planet is separated in its last aspect from one malefic and its next aspect is to perfect with another malefic, and it remains within orb of that application, then the planet is besieged. I use out of sign aspects, and so I recognise besiegement across sign boundaries.

Larxene,

If I recall correctly, there are two types of besiegement - besiegement by degree and besiegement by sign.
The example you provided of Mars, Moon and Saturn in Taurus would be besiegement by degree.

'Besiegement by sign' synopsis-> the malefics by body or ray afflict the signs before and after the sign in which the planet is placed; the malefics not aspecting the sign itself; and the benefics also in aversion to the sign.
I think it is a loose affliction than besiegement by degree

For example, Mars in the 25th degree of Taurus, the Moon in the 5th degree of Gemini, and Saturn in the 10th degree of Gemini. Is the Moon besieged here?

In Taurus the Moon was separating from Mars, a malefic. When it changed sign to Gemini, it probably escaped the influence of Mars, but it has to now clash with Saturn, the greater malefic.

This could be considered as sort of cross between besiegement by degree and besiegement by sign.

The moon is not probably besieged in the sense it has to carry the agenda of one malefic to another (since the change of signs would have probably voided that); but the application to Saturn by body would still be considered problematic for the Moon.

Vasanth

I don't think sign boundaries matter in this case. One stipulation I know of is that malefics have to cast rays within 7 degrees to each side of a given planet, but there is no such condition for bodily besiegement.

A planet may be besieged by planets in surrounding signs as well as by degree

A planet may also besiege by rays. In Ben Dykes Intro to Traditional Astrology he shows an example chart ( from Antiochus -Schmidt 2009 p195) where Mars in Aries enclose Moon in Virgo by aspecting Libra and Leo.

Larxene's second example would be a composite of surrounding sign and degree I reckon

Matthew

ITA pp 224 et sui

Thanks for the responses guys.

I was reading the concept of 'enclosure' in Robert Schmidt's Definitions and Foundations. I recall several examples in Firmicus where he states that a malefic planet in "the anafora of the sign" the Moon is in, afflicts the Moon. Since a malefic can enclose another planet with its rays despite not testifying to it, I was wondering whether a malefic can participate in obstructing a planet despite being in an adjacent sign (that is, not testifying to the latter).

At the moment, with the responses here, I believe it is possible.



Larxene Xenohart