Skyscript Astrology Forum

Hillary Clinton�s Birth Time

Any astrologer who has been following the United States 2016 presidential election is aware of the controversy surrounding Hillary Clinton�s hour of birth, whether it is 8:00 a.m. or p.m., give or take a few minutes. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Clinton,_Hillary

I have experimented with both charts on and off since the early 1990s, as Hillary Clinton tends to be constantly in the news. It wasn�t until recently, perhaps because every year as a practicing astrologer we tend to learn more, that it suddenly came to me: Her birth hour has to be the p.m. time. Why is this? There are several reasons.

Tiny Pic deleted chart

First, due to long testing over many years, I know that planets on the ascendant degree in all signs around the birth chart play a key role in the person�s life. This point is referred to as the MEP or Most Effective Point in V.K. Choudhry�s Systems Approach system of astrology. I don�t generally use that system, so the MEP only re-affirms what I discovered through many years of astrological practice. Hillary Clinton�s pm chart places three key planets on those points:

(1) Sun on cusp 5 in trine to the ascendant and trine the M.C.
(2) Moon only minutes from (slightly rectified) cusp 10 in trine to
(3) Jupiter on cusp 6

The Moon and Jupiter are the Gauquelin planets for notable politicians. The Sun, of course, signifies kings and rulers.

Second, the ascendant degree checks out in several interesting ways. Assuming that Hillary�s birth time is in the vicinity of 8:00 pm, a look at Indian shastyamsas (one 60th division of a sign) is interesting (Lahiri or Krishnamurti ayanamsa). A birth time of 8:02 gives a (Krishnamurti) ascendant of exactly 7 degrees of Gemini which is related to the God Shiva, not an especially suitable shastyamsa.

But the 6�30 to 7� symbolism is suitable: �Having great authority... majestic...having rulership over the western quarter� (DeLuce, Constellational Astrology), �Those in professions of heads of villages, towns, municipalities� (P.S. Sastri, Textbook of Scientific Hindu Astrology) A birth time of 8:01:30 p.m. gives a Krishnanmuti ascendant of 6�53 or Lahiri 6�47 Gemini, and a Sagittarius navamsa ascendant with Jupiter in Virgo, the 10th.

The navamsa has several strong positions: Mars in Capriocrn, Venus in Taurus and (natal ascendant lord) Mercury in Gemini.

A third reason, after considering this ascendant, I turned to the Internet for possible verification. I discovered that K.N. Rao, the preeminent research astrologer from India, stated that he received an 8 pm time in the 1990s: �In taking Hillary Clinton astrologically, I have found the horoscope given to me by some friends in [the] USA in 1994 or earlier to be correct. The time given was around 8 pm or 8:01 pm 26 October 1947.�
http//journalofastrology.com/ARTICLES/hillary_clinton_7.htm

What is the source of that time? Further research on the Internet led me to the IndiaDivine site where a user wrote regarding Hillary Clinton�s 8:00 pm chart: �Sri K.N.Rao uses it based on his information through Maharshi Karve (a living person in Mumbai, who predicts birth data, at mere look, through his siddis...� http//www.indiadivine.org/content/topic/14190 ... elections/

After reading that comment, I recall from the 1990s learning that Mr. Karve had given a Gemini ascendant for Hillary. At the time (as I remember) this seemed surprising to me, although I knew Mr. Karve had an excellent track record of giving correct birth times. I put the Gemini ascendant �on the table.� Mr. Karve used to be an annual guest at USA Jyotish conferences in Pennsylvania.

There are other supporting checks for an 8:01:30 p.m. time of birth for Hillary: a navamsa/natal comparison with her husband Bill Clinton, sidereal solar returns and enneads (the 40 day chart within each solar return period) for key events in Hillary�s life, and dasas and sub periods which fit events. There is also the potent yogakaraka relationship between ascendant lord Mercury with 5th lord Venus aspected by 9th lord Saturn in ascendant lord Mercury�s mansion.

Solar return and ennead charts are the mathematical check and support for Hillary�s time of birth, and since a topic has been started in another area of Skyscipt (Mundane Astrology and World Events) for the USA presidential election, within a few days I will post some of these charts under that topic, as we can project success or failure from those charts.
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 8706#98706
The US Presidential election of 2016

I forgot to mention that since I have AstrodataBank on my computer, I asked for all the A and AA data with Gemini ascendants between 6 and 8 degrees (Krishnamurti ayanamsa). Even though we tend to suspect precise ascendant degrees, there was some interesting support for an ascendant between 6?30 and 7? Gemini for Hillary:

Between 6?30 and 7? Gemini there are 3 Mensan members and a prodigy. A common comment about Hillary is that she is very bright and was an exceptionally intelligent lawyer (Jupiter trine Moon at the NG/zenith point). She has been called "whip smart and funny."

There are four politicians in that half degree area, and two activists. Hillary has been an activist for various causes throughout her life beginning in college, and is now aiming for the USA presidency after serving as senator for the state of New York and Secretary of State for the US government.

If we compare the earlier half degree, 6?00 to 6?30, there are no Mensan members or politicians, but there are seven people in the entertainment industry, an exotic dancer, a stage act, a drag queen, singers and actors. Four astrologers.

The 7? to 7?30 Gemini degree area likewise has no Mensan members or politicians, but does have four people excelling in sports and six people in the entertainment industry. Also three astrologers. (If you are hoping to be a brilliant astrologer, there are also three astrologers in what I believe to be Hillary's half degree area.) There are so many astrologers in ADB that a few will come up in almost any data or degree search.

Therese

And then there was Monica...

Like everyone, Hillary has had ups and downs in life. In satisfying myself that a PM birth was correct, I calculated solar returns and Enneads for key events in Hillary's life. One of these events was the day she heard definitely of her husband's dalliance with intern Monica Lewinsky. Here is the Ennead (40 day period) for that time in Hillary's life.

Below I follow the rules set forth by siderealist Cyril Fagan in placing importance on planets near the angles or closely aspecting the angles (Asc/Desc/MC/IC/NG--90 degrees from the ascendant).

(Tiny Pic deleted chart)

Ennead (set for birth place): Hillary learns the truth about Monica Lewinsky.

This chart speaks for itself. Saturn in its fall in Aries is directly on the Ennead ascendant in square to elevated Neptune. Transiting Saturn is only two minutes from the opposition to natal Sun on the descendant (husband). Transiting Ketu is on natal MC.

Mars and Venus are on the Ennead IC, opposing public Moon at the MC.

In Hillary's Gemini ascendant PM chart, Jupiter is lord of the 7th house. Here in the Ennead chart natal Jupiter with Ketu--Moon's south node--is in the 8th house, said to relate to sex.

Transiting Jupiter (natal 7th lord) is in the 12th house conjunct natal Moon in 10th. (Cusp as center of house) This was a very public affair for Hillary.

The controversy continues as to which is correct, setting return charts for the birth place or location where the person is living. My experience with sidereal return charts is that the birth place is always accurate, but for key external events (such as elevation to the presidency), planets that come to the angles in return charts apply to that event. In the case of Monica Lewinsky, Hillary's Ennead birth place chart is more accurate in dramatically telling the Lewinsky story.

With the election less than a week away, I'm copying my posts here from the Election topic as they are in the sidereal zodiac. The post below was posted on June 28, 1916.
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Here is Hillary Clinton's pm SSR (sidereal solar return) chart re-located to Washington, DC. Transiting Mercury (her pm ascendant lord) is partile conjunct the Sun in house 10 (equal cusp as center of the house). Solar return MC is on natal Jupiter, and transiting Jupiter is trine the SR ascendant. Outer cusps and planets are the solar return positions, natal chart planets are in the center.

(Tiny Pic deleted chart)

My post from July 20, 2016: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 9055#99055
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Below are the Washington DC Enneads (40 day charts within the solar return year) for the 2016 U.S. presidential election date for both candidates. Either these charts have no validity or it's not even a contest based on planets on angles or aspecting angles (asc/desc/MC/IC).

Simply consider the innate nature of the planets and ignore signs of the zodiac since these charts have to be calculated without precession (sidereal). Hillary Clinton's presumed natal ascendant is Gemini, ruled by Mercury. Donald Trump's ascendant is Leo, house of the Sun. (House cusp lines are considered the center points of equal houses.)

(Tiny Pic deleted chart)

Hillary Clinton:
Sun and Mercury at the NG (zenith point) (Mercury cazimi)
Ennead MC conjunct natal Jupiter
Ennead Jupiter partile trine the Ascendant
Natal Lot of Fortune conjunct Ennead ascendant

(Tiny Pic deleted chart)

Donald Trump:
Saturn at the NG (zenith point)
Ennead MC conjunct natal Ketu (south node--loss)
Ennead Ketu (south node) on the Ascendant

Here's a small piece of support for a PM time of birth which I have used for Hillary Clinton. It's the moment on November 9 when she made her concession phone call to Donald Trump. CNN generally has the time in a small box on the TV screen, but I don't remember if this time came from the screen or my own clock. This has to be one of the most distressing and traumatic events in Hillary's life.

(Tiny Pic deleted chart)

The PM natal chart is on the inner wheel, and the planets at the time of the call on the outer wheel. The event angles cross with the natal angles:

The event MC is a degree from the natal ascendant, and the event ascendant is at the nadir.

Transiting Moon is on the natal MC.

Transiting Mercury is on Ketu (Moon's south node) in the 6th house.

Transiting Mars is in the natal ascendant degree in the 8th house, close to natal Fortuna.

Transiting Venus opposes natal Uranus on the ascendant with a 20 minute orb.

....a lot of accidental hits for an incorrect birth time.

Trailing Hillary Clinton through this time in her life is transiting Jupiter on natal Neptune. This is an aspect that I'm not sure how to interpret. Also ongoing for the PM birth are Neptune and Ketu on natal MC. With the AM birth time, these are on the natal IC. Elsewhere on Skyscript I've posted the quarter Ennead chart for the election date. I'll find it and copy it here.

I agree with Kenneth Bowser that the AM chart doesn't show a win, but I can see both losing and winning possibilities in the PM chart. But whatever Neptune represents in the natal chart(s), that planet is prominent for this time in Hillary's life.

Hillary Clinton's Election Quarter Ennead

Below is the quarter Ennead election chart for Hillary. There is some support, I believe, for the PM birth time in the chart (and others I have studied). The quarter Ennead chart breaks the 40 day Ennead period into four 10 day periods. The time period for this chart began on November 5.

(Tiny Pic deleted chart)

Several features of this chart stand out:

(1) The Moon in the 12th house is contained between Mars and Pluto. Siderealists would place this configuration in the 1st house foreground.

(2) The MC conjoins natal Ketu (Moon's south node) which in general indicates loss, often of a particularly karmic nature. In the natal chart Ketu, Jupiter, Mercury and Venus are all in the PM 6th house.

(3) Capricorn rises which is the PM natal 8th house sign. The ascendant degree is only five minutes from Fortuna.

(4) Natal ascendant is in the quarter Ennead 6th house

(5) Transiting Neptune and Ketu are on the natal MC. I did see that transit, but rationalized it away.

(6) Transiting Jupiter is only 12 minutes away from the partile conjunction to natal Neptune, perhaps another Neptunian warning of illusion and broken dreams, or an indication of mysterious unexpected and surprising events. It's always difficult to pin anything definite on Neptune.

The angular Sun in house 10 indicates the public spotlight, but the Sun isn't supported by helpful transits. I didn't look at this chart prior to the election, and I didn't consider return charts set for the birth place. This is why I want to discuss the locale/birth place question later on this forum.

Therese Hamilton wrote:Hillary Clinton's Election Quarter Ennead

Below is the Noocube results chart and quarter Ennead election chart for Hillary. There is some support, I believe, for the PM birth time in the chart (and others I have studied). The quarter Ennead chart breaks the 40 day Ennead period into four 10 day periods. The time period for this chart began on November 5.

Nice research Therese. I would bet money on it you are right.

Ewalt wrote:Nice research Therese. I would bet money on it you are right.

Thank you Ewalt, but I mis-called the election because I used a chart set for Washington rather than Hillary's birth place. In using the Washington chart I was following the conventional 'wisdom' of the western sidereal (Fagan) school of astrology rather than the Indian method of remaining with the birth place in solar return (varshaphal) charts. I am always experimenting, and the election wasn't the time to experiment!

I do generally trust K.N. Rao, and followed his lead in using a PM chart for Hillary. Here is her PM solar return chart for 2016 for her birth place which any astrologer would see is severely afflicted and in no way indicates that she would be the next president of the United States.

(Tiny Pic deleted chart)

Capricorn rises in Hillary's 2016 solar return. Capricorn is the natal 8th house (severe misfortune) sign. Mars-Pluto above the ascendant square Uranus at the nadir best expresses shock and unexpected events. Hillary says in her recent book that she never expected to lose the election. (Though she did win the popular vote.)

One planet we never want to see emphasized in a winning election chart is Neptune. In Hillary's 2016 solar return transiting Jupiter conjoins natal Neptune, but more importantly there is the double transit of Ketu (material loss) and Neptune on Hillary's natal MC. Her natal Ketu in the 6th house is partile sextile the SR ascendant from the solar return 11th, house of hope and benefits from others. All together, Hillary's birth place solar return is difficult and traumatic--not a chart that indicates the joy of winning a presidential election.

I just deleted a post from this thread that contributed nothing astrologically but was merely an ad hominem attack on Clinton. Let's try to keep things civilized.

The astrologer Patrick Watson has pointed out that according to Illinois state law all birth data becomes publicly accessible when a native of the state reaches the age of 75 years of age. So hopefully this data controversy will finally be resolved sometime after October 26, 2022.

Mark