Hi,
Question asked:
"Will things work out between me and x within a year?"
June 5, 2005
11:47 PM, 40n53 73W58, EDT +4:00; 8 deg 33 minutes Aquarius rising.
There is planetary hour agreement (Hour of Mercury), so the chart appears radical.

I am the 1st, Saturn and the Moon. He is the 7th, the Sun. Well, the first thing that catches my eye is that the Moon is heading straight into the sun, 9 degrees.

Now in this particular case, the Sun is the primary significator. So is this a terrible case of combustion, or is this perfection? Under normal circumstances, combustion is considered a really serious debility, and what could be worse than the Moon heading straight in to it - or so it would seem. But do the rules of combustion apply if one of the primary rulers is the sun? Also notice that the first aspect that the Moon makes is a trine to Jupiter, which is ruler of the 11th, and maybe I'm stretching this a bit because this is my own chart, but I see the 11th as my hopes and wishes, and the trine looks like a good thing.

I recall that there is an example in CA that Lilly did for himself (Mrs. B's houses??), where the quesited is the Sun or he's the sun, and the other signficator is conjuncting it. Unfortunately, I don't have CA with me right now (and for good reason, I'm supposed to be working!! )

My apologies if this question has been answered elsewhere in the forum, but this particular situation is illustrated very clearly in this chart, hence I thought it worth posting. In addition to the fact that I'm still confused as to the outcome...

Would anyone have a personal example similar to this, and what was the outcome?
Thanks.
- Taurus7 -

I think the general view is that if they are both significators, the sun is not combusting, is perfecting.
Combustion, is more when the sun is a "third party" significator, I think
Y

There a few things to consider in this chart regarding the Moon. The first is theoretical and may be accepted or rejected as the astrologer chooses. Morinus tells us that the Moon in Gemini is severely debilitated as she is in the 12th house of her rulership. . Since the querent's main significator, Saturn, is also in debility in Cancer, from this standpoint alone, querent isn't in a very strong position to bring about the desired result.

Secondly the Moon is considered more seriously debilitated when combust than any other planet. Lilly tells us on page 301 of CA:

In all questions, know there's not so great an affliction to the Moon as when she is in conjunction with the Sun; the ill aspects of the Infortunes does much afflict of her, but none so powerful as combustion.

However what is more pertinent to the question is that the Moon is not quite combust in this chart. Combustion is 8 degrees 30 minutes from the Sun. The Moon in the chart given by Solar Fire places the Moon 10 minutes out of combustion. The Moon is under the beams but heading for combustion, which to me means the situation will only get worse rather than better.

Finally we should note that an aspect perfects when the planets share the same degree and minute of longitude. When perfection involves conjuncting the Sun, the planet, in this case the Moon, is no longer combust, but rather cazimi, a great strength.

Tom

yuzuru wrote:I think the general view is that if they are both significators, the sun is not combusting, is perfecting.
Combustion, is more when the sun is a "third party" significator, I think
Y

Yuzuru,
Thank you for your response. If what you say is true, then I would have to say that this would definitely be a "first" in a relationship question and I would be absolutely amazed!! - I don't know if you've noticed but it seems like 99% of relationship horaries always have a disappointing answer.
...oh, well....

Tom,
Thank you for your response. I understand and agree with everything you have said, but got a little confused with this...

Finally we should note that an aspect perfects when the planets share the same degree and minute of longitude. When perfection involves conjuncting the Sun, the planet, in this case the Moon, is no longer combust, but rather cazimi, a great strength.

Not entirely sure what you mean in the context of this horary? Things get worse (as I get closer to the sun), but when the aspect perfects, I end up in a powerful and strong position?

Knowing my situation as I do, and if this is true, what you say actually sounds quite "prophetic", because it will take tremendous strength on my part to make things work out. But can you imagine how strong I will be when it's all over and done with???

Now that's a challenge worthy of a Cazimi moon! The world is my oyster...I can hardly wait!!

Yes, I notice most horary love questions go souer, I have two hyphoteses
1) people are shallow and individualist
2) the stars don?t like people go together

My reasoning for 2) is that the two ruler will always be opposite, so, if they are one in eachother houses, they will be in exile and oppostition

If they are perfecting, is by square
If is by trine, they have to reception
If they have reception, they are cadent, or one in 12th and other in 8th

:-)

I also didn?t get what Tom meant
Y

Not entirely sure what you mean in the context of this horary? Things get worse (as I get closer to the sun), but when the aspect perfects, I end up in a powerful and strong position?

Yup. PLanets getting deeper into combustion signify things are bad and perhaps getting worse, and when the planet is within 17 minutes of the Sun it is sitting with the King, and therefore strong. But once it moves out of cazimi it is back into combustion but separating (assuming the planet is moving faster than the Sun). In some situations being cazimi can be a double edged sword. Yes you're close to the king, but that could also make you a target, particularly when the cazimi period ends.

In John Frawley's horary course we ae asked to do what amounted to an electional horary. The question was: When is it a good time to start my internet business? Mercury, the significator of the quesited was combust, but when Mercurty was cazimi the business was started with resulting success. So as contradictory as this sounds, it does fall within "the rules." Entering deeper into combustion is weak getting weaker. Cazimi is strong. Then leaving cazimi and re-entering combustion is weak. This isn't a whole lot different from, say Mars at 29 Aries (domicile) about to enter Taurus (detriment) He goes from strong and independent to weak in a single degree.

Notice in Taurus' question the significator was not combust, but about to enter combustion, so definitely weak (under the beams) and about to get weaker (combustion). It would take a bit more work to determine whether the question will be settled before or after the significator enters cazimi.

Tom

I noticed a few days ago, when the forum was an empty ghost city, that posts only began again after mercury got cazimi :-)

But they seem to be holding pretty well for someone again in combustion :-P
Yuzuru

But has the quality improved or declined?

I think improving in intelectual discussion would be a jupiter subject, not to the poor mercury

Yuzuru

Notice in Taurus' question the significator was not combust, but about to enter combustion, so definitely weak (under the beams) and about to get weaker (combustion).

That's amazing what you say, without knowing anything - it's almost scary. What amazes me is how this horary played out. I mean, I could just as easily have come to a a square or opposition with reception with his ruler, but the way you describe the events as a result of the combustion truly paint the picture the way I expect it to go. The power of horary never ceases to amaze me, it's dangerous.

It would take a bit more work to determine whether the question will be settled before or after the significator enters cazimi.

If you would have the time, I would appreciate if you could briefly tell me how I could figure this out...
Thank you.

Yuzuru wrote:

I think improving in intelectual discussion would be a jupiter subject, not to the poor mercury

Although my tongue was slightly in cheek when I wrote what I did, I would think Mercury combust would affect the communication and reasoning powers, and Mercury cazimi would strengthen them. Jupiter is or could be the subject matter and I can see where you might look there. I'm sticking with Mercury.

Taurus 7 wrote:

If you would have the time, I would appreciate if you could briefly tell me how I could figure this out...
Thank you.

Well I opened my big mouth didn't I? At this moment I am away from home, and I have yet to re-install my astrology program on my accursed laptop. I can tell you this much: There are two places to look for this - the timing of the perfection of the aspect, and the ruler of the 4th house (The end of the matter).

First you need to determine when the main significators perfect their aspect and apply the rules of timing. I think John Frawley's article on that subject is still on this site. Does this aspect perfect before or after any other significant aspects? If so they get priority.

Secondly the 4th house ruler and its position and condition can sometimes be helpful. Let's say in a question (not yours), the 4th ruler is combust, then the thing asked about could very well "blow up" literally or figuratively. If the 4th ruler is in a tight hard aspect to a malefic this might indicate an unfavorable outcome in the end. Be careful with this. Lots of good outcomes occur when the 4th ruler is in bad shape. It is not the final word of God by any means, but it is worth a peek.

Tom