Skyscript Astrology Forum

Tanit wrote:I am sorry if this is off topic, but the tennis champion is a very young man that we know little about. On a surface level I am sure it is easy to make conjectures about the success and happiness of a person, but in using people who you know very little about, it is hard to come to solid answers.

That sounds very modern astrology to me. If with astrology we can just say about someone else psyche, and in order to do this we should know this person very well it's not the kind of astrology I like to do.

I believe we can do more than this.

margherita

You can predict something about someone and wait for your prediction to come true or not, or you can use real examples with outcomes. I don't mean we can't predict something about this person, but we would have no proof of what we are saying, other than what you hear in the media about his life, since you can't ask him or talk to people who know him, and again, he's only 30, so you will likely be waiting a long time to find out the outcome of his Mars in Cancer.

Tanit wrote:I don't agree about planets being peregrine in horary being less able to perform than those in fall or detriment. Performance in what way exactly? Any planet can perform if given enough accidental dignity, but the question in my mind is more so if a planet in fall or detriment does so in a destructive way or in a way that does not benefit the person or others. If you put a peregrine, fall or detriment planet on an angle is this going to be a planet that doesn't "perform?" Does it do nothing at all? I would think not with such accidental power.

Does not perform, i.e, the outcome is negative, the answer is "No" (horary chart). A peregrine planet can perform, yes, but a planet in its detriment/Fall can perform, too. Or "bring the thing demanded to passe" if you will. I just don't trust it.

Moon can be very weak and debilitated but she still can translate the light, yet sometimes she fails to translate the light even being essentially fortified because of ill-receptions with one or both of the principal significators.

Tanit wrote:You can predict something about someone and wait for your prediction to come true or not, or you can use real examples with outcomes. I don't mean we can't predict something about this person, but we would have no proof of what we are saying, other than what you hear in the media about his life, since you can't ask him or talk to people who know him, and again, he's only 30, so you will likely be waiting a long time to find out the outcome of his Mars in Cancer.

Exactly. If we say a person is "wicked" because of some Debility in the chart. How wicked on the scale from 1 to 10? What does it mean? What s/he will do with it, how it will affect the person's life?

What if the person's significator of Career is combust? Maybe instead of having no career at all s/he will have an outstanding career as an undercover operative/in military intelligence etc (combust = not seen/hidden).

in The Astrological Metaphors, II.178. Abu Ma'shar writes that "some planets can bear combustion pretty well, others not", and looking at Mercury we read: "Mercury: like a man accustomed to difficulties and misery and poverty, but is able to bear them because they are familiar."

And Dr. Dykes adds in footnote 98: "Mercury is often combust because he never strays more than 28? from the Sun."

from: Using Medieval Astrology, Part I, by Dr. Ben Dykes


james

Jerd/Tom/Seiko

jerd wrote:in The Astrological Metaphors, II.178. Abu Ma'shar writes that "some planets can bear combustion pretty well, others not", and looking at Mercury we read: "Mercury: like a man accustomed to difficulties and misery and poverty, but is able to bear them because they are familiar."

And Dr. Dykes adds in footnote 98: "Mercury is often combust because he never strays more than 28? from the Sun."

from: Using Medieval Astrology, Part I, by Dr. Ben Dykes


james

Margherita forgot to mention this in the reading of the chart, but she thinks exactly like Ben Dykes, that Mercury is with the Sun so much time, so it works a little differently.

Tanit

I don't mean we can't predict something about this person, but we would have no proof of what we are saying, other than what you hear in the media about his life, since you can't ask him or talk to people who know him, and again, he's only 30, so you will likely be waiting a long time to find out the outcome of his Mars in Cancer.

I heard so many times this sentence in psychological groups..When I hear it is like an alarm bell to me.

Mars grants falls especially when it's angular. I have even a chart where an Italian famous actor with a Saturn-Mars opposition on the meridian, fell with the parachute and died.

Here Mars is not angular, I really don't know about this chart. It is true that Mars is in fall, but it's almost in heliacal rising, it had it a couple of weeks before the birth, it's quite strong.

margherita

And this Mars also happens to be sitting exactly on Sirius, the brightest fixed star in the night sky bestowing a very strong Mars/Jupiter influence.

Like Margherita, I think this Mars is pretty strong for the reasons she's already mentioned. Triplicity is not to be neglected as a resource it has at its disposal so this Mars is very able to perform while also having constructive potential to throw into the bargain(and here comes Sirius again).

However, the outcome of Mars's significations isn't going to be very nice if we're to judge by the Moon in its fall.
This potential "downfall" should start to manifest itself during the Moon firdar, starting on 8.8.2012. especially if we bear in mind that the Moon is in the 12th from POF.

Regards,
Goran

About that Federer's chart - this is exactly why I don't like natal astrology because the question is what exactly are we looking for? Some people just look at "the technical parameters" - planets' qualities, position, aspects from Infortunes etc and make a general conclusion.

In fact, Mercury could be free of combustion if a) Sun is a significator and b) Mercury translates the light (in this case, from Saturn and Jupiter).

Sun is a natural significator of kings, champions etc Leo is the fifth sign in the order of signs - sports. Sun is in almost partile aspect with PoF. Moon is exactly (same degree) conjunct Part of Sudden Progress, whatever that means. Here you go. I'm not saying I'm right I don't do natal astrology but maybe it's something along these lines.

this is exactly why I don't like natal astrology because the question is what exactly are we looking for?

No one is compelled to like natal astrology, but this objection is puzzling. In this example chart we are looking for the effects of a planet in its fall. Whether or not this is a good example is the topic of the discussion. No one is offering a full natal delineation.

Although I agree with what I think is your point: there needs to be a reason for a natal reading. Then things fall into place. If we have a chart in front of us with the instructions: "Tell me about myself," I admit I couldn't do more than the most basic cookbook type delineations. We're never sure where to go. Without context the reading is usually just fluff.

Horary on the other hand is very specific. This is my question and that is usually followed with an answer to that question. The human life is more complicated to unravel. In many cases horary is far more suitable than natal astrology. It's nice to have both.

As said before the Sun is an indicator for success and honors, especially because situated in its own domicile. But what about its placement in the cadent 12th house/sign which is in aversion to the ASC. Mercury is in aversion to the ASC too. Sun is also the ruler of the 12th house and it is said that the ruler of a house in the same house will realize the affairs of this house. So the Sun is going to realize 12th house affairs!?